ONG BEACH, Calif. - Like all good zingers, the line was fiercely funny and unexpectedly obvious.
To paraphrase the question put to one of the two grown men now slugging it out for their party's presidential nomination: Shouldn't the Reform Party be renamed the Reform School Party?
It was that kind of day - again - for the third party that once showed so much promise. Gone are the middle-American manners, the sense of nationwide solidarity. Instead, the heirs to party founder Ross Perot's mantle have been reduced to name calling.
The barbed back-and-forth between presidential aspirants Patrick Buchanan and John Hagelin has buried any chance the Reform Party has to be taken seriously by voters, at least in the short term. Even the delegates who paid their own way to Long Beach, who took vacation time to be here, conceded as much. Supporters of both candidates say they are embarrassed, despairing even.
But despite the shouting, the shoving and the formation of a second, separate convention yesterday, the delegates and the candidates insisted the Reform Party will emerge stronger than ever.
Even as an attorney for Hagelin was filing a complaint with the Federal Election Commission, charging Buchanan with fraud and asking the agency not to certify his candidacy, party members stuck to the premise that the infighting was healthy.
Depicting themselves as decent, hard-working Americans, members said they cannot conceive of the party's collapse. They said growing pains are natural, especially with $12.6 million in federal funds at stake for the triumphant nominee. As they sat on floors and leaned against walls waiting for the action to start, many also said they didn't mean to sound like pollyannas.
''I'm sure a lot of people will think we're nuts, but a lot of other people will see a chance to have their voices heard with this party,'' said Tim McCoy, a printer from Minnesota. ''I really believe that.''
Said Donna Campbell, a San Francisco-area office manager who supports Hagelin, ''Even with what's happened, if people like Hagelin, if we can get to them, we're looking for 20 percent of the vote. Really, I am. Look, things happen for the best.''
The catch yesterday was that the Reform Party suddenly found itself with two conventions, one featuring Buchanan in the official convention center, the other starring Hagelin in the convention theater next door, each with security men wearing earplugs and carrying walkie talkies.
But Hagelin's breakaway convention was pulled together so hastily that copies of the scheduled events, straight off the copying machines, were still warm.
At the same time, the Buchanan forces were doing their best to stick to a 9-page, schedule that they consider the official convention program. Each side declared itself the rightful Reform Party, the one with a real chance to sway American voters.
''The catharsis will have a silver lining; the roots of the party are here,'' Hagelin insisted in response to the Reform School Party question put to him by a reporter in the morning. ''The party is poised to rebound. The American people will see that.''
Later, at his news conference, Buchanan called Hagelin ''a log who has been thrown on the tracks of a runaway express train.'' He stressed that his movement was ''about building a new Reform Party that is much more energized about the issues of sovereignty and trade.''
This party, or that party, was at issue for the umpteenth day, with no resolution in sight and sound bites coming straight from the schoolyard. Hagelin and his loyalists continued to charge that Buchanan, a socially conservative former TV commentator, has illegally hijacked the party for his own purposes, most of them nefarious.
In a ''Statement of Personal Belief'' issued yesterday, Buchanan vowed to make ''America a godly nation again'' by ending abortion and taking a stand against ''rampant homosexuality.'' The manifesto is at odds with the party platform, which focuses on government reform rather than social issues.
Meanwhile, Buchanan and his loyalists were again tagging Hagelin, a physicist and former professor at Maharishi University of Management in Fairfield, Iowa, as a Johnny-come-lately, as well as a sore loser who won't let go. Perot loyalists have rallied around Hagelin as the only alternative to Buchanan.
Even by the convention's close on Sunday, which candidate will receive the federal funds is likely to be unclear. Ultimately, the FEC, rather than the hundreds of Reform Party delegates, may end up determining the nominee when it rules on who will receive the funds.
Still, as Hagelin's people marched over to confront Buchanan's and hours afterward, all of the energy threatened to eviscerate the Reform Party. As Russell Verney, the former national chairman and Perot confidant, put it, the party might be best off by not reaching the 20 percent threshold necessary to qualify for federal funding next time around. That way it can focus on building state organizations.
''All [the money] does,'' Verney said, ''is attract fruits and nuts.''
Globe correspondent Curtis Wilkie contributed to this report.
