Excerpts from Harlem debate

Associated Press, 02/21/00

Excerpts from Monday's debate between Democratic presidential candidates Bill Bradley and Vice President Al Gore, as transcribed by the Federal Document Clearing House:

Question about reducing police brutality and positions on racial profiling:

BRADLEY: When I think of Amadou Diallo, I think of an unarmed man who was fired at 41 times by the police, who was killed.

I think it was an outrage. I feel it. Everybody in this room feels it. I think it was also a tragedy. But I also think it reflects racial profiling, in the sense of racial profiling that seeps into the mind of someone so that he sees a wallet in the hand of a white man as a wallet, but a wallet in the hand of a black man as a gun.

And we -- we have to change that. I would issue an executive order that would eliminate racial profiling at the federal level. I would try to pass a law to get information gathered at local levels so that we could see how the police departments are acting. I would make sure that the Justice Department was involved. And I would say quite clearly that white Americans can no longer deny the plight of black Americans.

GORE: I don't disagree with anything that Senator Bradley just said. But let me sharpen it a little bit from my part by saying that if you entrust me with the presidency, the first civil rights act of the 21st century will be a national law outlawing racial profiling.

We have to recognize that racial profiling is a problem not only in law enforcement, but also in insurance, in banking, inside schoolrooms, inside people's hearts.

And we have to -- we have to confront it.

The Diallo case, the Louima case and the other cases are just heartbreaking, and they have awakened the conscience of many Americans who have not looked at this problem squarely.

I think that we have to do a lot to get at police misconduct, to measure performance according to the attitudes toward the community also.

I think that we have to make certain that in this country not only will driving while black never be allowed to be a crime. But we just -- we have to say that we are going to become one people and prevent these incidents, partly by putting as much energy into education as we do into incarceration.

Question on reparations for descendants of former slaves:

GORE: I believe the best reparations is a good education and affirmative action to make available resources, to make available the kind of direct assistance that has brought an empowerment zone here to Harlem, that has created new opportunities.

I think that we still need affirmative action in this country. I don't think that it's time for anybody to say, Look, we have made so much progress. I think that's a ridiculous conclusion.

The average African-American family wealth -- and also, the average Latino family wealth, is less than one-tenth that of the average white family wealth.

To me, that justifies making available capital for young entrepreneurs.

It means -- it justifies making available opportunities for advancement and affirmative action in every sphere.

Now, I personally have supported these measures. And here -- we have created in the last seven years 20 million new jobs in America and the lowest African-American ... unemployment rate and poverty rate in history. We need to keep on going and make sure nobody is left behind.

BRADLEY: The issue of reparations is what you really raised. And it seems to me that what the issue raised is not just the issue of money, but the issue of acknowledging the contributions of African-Americans to this country's history over its entire history.

I think it is very important to do that. There are varieties of ways to do that. You could establish a commission, which I think has already been proposed in the Congress by Mr. (John) Conyers that would look at the possibility of finding a way to acknowledge those contributions that have been made from the days of slavery to the days today. And also, not denying anymore those contributions. American -- white Americans are in denial of black Americans contributions through slavery, denial in Jim Crow ... and continue to deny today the indignities that African-Americans suffer. I believe that we can change that with a major new investment in education, in economic development ... and in beginning to see things a little deeper than skin color.

Question about reducing the gap in access to computers between rich and poor communities.

BRADLEY: One of the first things I would do is I would give 10,000 scholarships a year at $7,500 a year scholarship to people who after four years would agree to teach in an urban or rural school district in the areas of computer science, math, science or foreign languages. We need teachers in our communities who understand these subjects and have the equipment.

The next thing I would (do) is something I call info-stamps, which empowers those who don't have to be able to get the equipment and the software that they need in order to be a part of the digital revolution. We have food stamps. We need info-stamps to be able to accomplish this objective.

And in terms of education, I think -- and you mentioned race in education -- I think it is important to know that in 1980, '81 and 1979 there was an issue before the Congress that related to whether the -- whether the government would provide tax-exempt status to schools that racially discriminate. Al Gore supported those measures, and I'd like to know today why.

GORE: Well, I made a speech last week on how to close the digital divide. I'll deal with this briefly and then respond to Bill's false charge.

I believe that we need to get computing centers in the community for children and for adults, and we need to finish connecting every classroom and library to the Internet. We need to get computers in the schools, and we need to train the teachers. We cannot allow a digital divide to exacerbate the gap between rich and poor. Now, as for this false charge -- two in a row. First of all, on government procurement, there was no change there. That's a false charge.

Secondly, look, you have misrepresented that vote entirely, Senator Bradley. That was not about affirmative action. That was about quotas. It was 337 members of the Congress voted against that. You voted for -- the same way on final passage.

Now, let me -- let me talk about a more recent vote. Not 20 years ago. In 1995, you were the only Democratic senator ... to vote against affirmative action to help expand the number of African-American-owned broadcasting outlets -- radio stations and TV stations. Why did you -- why were the only Democratic senator on the Finance Committee to vote against that?

BRADLEY: Given Al's answer, I kind of expected his answer on his vote to preserve tax exempt status for schools like Bob Jones (University) that racially discriminate.

So, I brought today, a copy of all five of those votes ... I've also brought today, my statement in opposition, the Congressional Black Caucus's statement in opposition, and Trent Lott's statement in support, saying that this would go to Bob Jones University.

I'd like to give it to each member of the panel and Bernie at the break, but I'd like you to have it now, Al.

Question on reducing number of guns in America:

BRADLEY: The answer is, yes, we can limit the number of guns that people buy. In fact, I've offered the strongest gun control proposal of any presidential candidate in history. I want registration and licensing of all handguns. All handguns.

I want to make sure that there're trigger locks on guns, no gun dealers in residential neighborhoods; that we have background checks at gun shows, as well as gun dealers.

And I'll tell you something else. Al has been Bill Clinton's vice president for seven years. He's done a good job as vice president. But he was also a conservative congressman. And when he was a conservative congressman, he voted with the NRA, and the head of the NRA said that he was the poster child or man of the year. So there are two differences here ... there are two differences.

GORE: Senator Bradley, a couple of days ago your campaign said that you wanted to get some things off your chest. Well, since then you've made personal attack after personal attack.

Problem is these attacks don't solve any problems. They do divide us as Democrats.

They distract us from the real enemy, the right-wing extremist, Confederate-flag-waving Republicans who are trying to roll back the progress that we have made.

Now, the Clinton-Gore administration has passed the toughest gun control measures in the last 30 years. I cast the tie-breaking vote to close the gun show loophole. Where were you? You had left. You had left. And on the very day ... on the very day when I cast that tie-breaking vote, you were out speaking at a fund-raiser. So, let's not kid ourselves, we've got a lot of work to do.

BRADLEY: Well, what you've seen is an elaborate what I call Gore dance. It is ... it is a dance to avoid facing up to your conservative record on guns.

GORE ... By all means, Bill, get the negativity off your chest. But then when you get through, let's return to face the real problems that we're facing in this country.

Bradley was asked whether he believed Gore has the character, trustworthiness and intellectual honesty to make a good president:

BRADLEY; My view is that the people will make this decision. My view also is that if Al were the nominee, I would support him.

My view -- my view, however, is that we have very different views of the Democratic Party. I -- in Congress, he introduced four bills that dealt with education and zero bills that dealt with health care. He was a conservative Democrat, did not support national health insurance, an 84 percent right-to-life voting record and was the poster boy for the NRA.

What I'm saying is, That's one view of what the Democratic Party can be. The other view is to go the road of making access to quality affordable health care available to every one in this country, making major investments in urban public schools that need those investments so much ... doubling the amount of money spent on Title I, so that urban public schools will have qualified teachers and be accountable to parents.

GORE: Well, you've got it right, Mr. Greenfield. He questions the character of people who disagree with him.

When NARAL, the leading pro-choice organization in America, endorsed my candidacy, his campaign put out information questioning their character -- questioning the character of their leaders.

When the AFL-CIO endorsed me, he put out a statement attacking them.

He confuses disagreement with somebody not being a good person.

Now, yesterday, he even proposed the appointment of new special prosecutor to investigate Democrats. Senator Bradley, you must be the only Democrat in America who misses Ken Starr.

BRADLEY: I did not propose a special prosecutor. I said that the Democratic Party will lose its mantle as a reform party if we don't come to terms with what happened in 1996. And I think the best way to come to terms with what happened in 1996 is for you to tell people exactly what happened, in your own words, so that -- let me tell you, if you are...

GORE: Well, let me just read you the front -- "The New York Times" today, recalling -- reporting on your statement yesterday.

BRADLEY: Incorrect.

GORE: "Former Senator Bill Bradley publicly endorsed today the appointment of a special prosecutor...

BRADLEY: It's incorrect.

GORE: ... for the Clinton-Gore campaign in '96."

BRADLEY: It's incorrect.

GORE: Well, take it up with The New York Times. You're the one that is reported as having said that...

BRADLEY: No. No. It's incorrect.

Question on considering a black running mate if nominated:

GORE: Now as for a vice presidential running mate or a Cabinet or anything like that, I have refrained from making any short list or long list because I don't want to get ahead of myself. I'm focused on trying to convince folks to go to the polls and support my candidacy on March the 7th. And so I don't want to get ahead of myself.

But I'll tell you this: The one criterion that I would use if I have that privilege is to select someone who would be capable of becoming president on a moment's notice in case that had to happen. And of course, I would make that selection without regard to race or gender or ethnicity ...

BRADLEY: I think the first criteria is that the person should be able to step into the office if the president was not there and perform the duties exceptionally well.

I think the second criteria is that the person should be able to help in a campaign.

The third is that the person should be someone that the president has the ability to get along with and can be a partner.

I think there are plenty of African-Americans in this country who fit that criteria.

Question about imposing a moratorium on the death penalty:

GORE: I think that the problem of racial profiling that we started with is just the beginning of the problems we have to face within the criminal justice system, including sentencing; the disparities between crack and powder cocaine, for example, as they're currently written, are not justified by the scientific evidence; the practices of many law enforcement agencies need to be changed, as we've talked about; and, where the death penalty is concerned, I strongly support the inquiry under way right now in the U.S. Justice Department to see whether or not the racial disparity on the surface of the data justifies action of a kind that they're now exploring.

I think that the record that the governor of Illinois confronted was, kind of, different from what it is nationally so far.

I do support the death penalty, but I -- and I do not support a moratorium at this time. Senator Bradley's attacked me for not supporting the death penalty enough.

Bradley was asked why his message, according to polls, does not seem resonate with the black community:

BRADLEY: You know what's interesting about your question, Tamala -- and I am disappointed there's not more support in the African-American community according to the polls.

Because if you look at the programs that I've offered -- health insurance access to all Americans, guarantees for children, making sure that we have community health centers -- that is aimed at a population that's disproportionately poor. For example, you have about 25 percent of African-Americans who don't have health insurance.

In terms of the education program, the public education programs that I've explained tonight go to primarily urban and some rural areas that have high numbers of poor children in them.

If you take the whole effort on eliminating child poverty, you have 40 percent of African-American children living in poverty.

If you look at the respective positions, there is no question that the positions that I've advocated...

GORE: Well, if I translate that answer, what he's saying is that people on the street are in the same position that he said the Congressional Black Caucus is in: They just don't, in his view, understand his proposals.

Now I tell you, that's what he's saying. It's exactly what he's saying. He's saying that if they just understood what the proposals were, they would support him.

Well, let me tell you what the problem with that is. The presidency is not an academic exercise. It's not a seminar on some grand theory.

People on the street know very well that the presidency is a day-by-day fight for real people who face real problems.

And they know that the Clinton-Gore administration has been fighting for them. They know that I want to fight for them.

I want to fight for your families. I want to fight for your community. I want to fight for more jobs. I want to fight to lift this country up.

And that's why I am running for president, not on the basis of some theory.

BRADLEY: I think on so many levels that the debate doesn't reflect truly the richness of our country nor the opportunity of the moment. And the question is not which person can get the most elected leadership support. The question is which person's program will best benefit the people out there who are working every day, the people who are trying to make ends meet ... the people who need to have somebody who's going to fight for them every day.

Gore was asked about whether the Clinton administration should do more to reduce -- and might in part be responsible for -- the disparity between the number of blacks and whites in prison:

GORE: I said earlier, Karen, that I think that we ought to review the nature of the crimes that are included in the calculation of this three strikes and you're out provision. I also think that we need to focus more on prevention. We need to give more alternatives to incarceration.

And as I said at the start of this debate, I believe that we need to spend as much time and effort and money and energy on education as we do on incarceration. I think that prevention and education and alternatives really represent the long-term answer.

We have got to keep our neighborhoods and our communities safe. I think that community policing does work. I think that we need to add to it provisions that will take race out of the equation in law enforcement.

We talked about a lot of these issues here this evening ... but I think the long-term answer is much more prevention.

BRADLEY: The vice president said he wanted to take race out of I think the criminal justice system or out of policing, he said. That requires a president who is strong and willing to lead on the central question of race in our country today. And that means sometimes telling white Americans what they don't want to hear.

And I, therefore, don't do it with any kind of pointed finger. But take the issue of white skin privilege. Now, what is white skin privilege? White skin privilege -- did you see the television program a couple years ago where a black couple and a white couple, exactly parallel, went to 10 places to get apartments or houses. The black couple was rejected in all. The white couple was accepted in all.

But in a more personal sense, what is white skin privilege?

When I was a rookie in the NBA, I got a lot of offers to do television and commercials -- to do advertisements. I didn't -- and why did I get those? White skin privilege.

I wasn't the best player on the team, but I didn't take those because I thought that was not the right thing to do and that they were -- should have gone to my African-American teammates.

We have to explain white skin privilege.