Republican Senate candidate Rep. Rick Lazio attempts to get his Democratic rival, Hillary Rodham Clinton, to sign an agreement not to use soft money in their campaign. She declined. (AFP)

In Lazio-Clinton debate, wide-ranging battle

By Fred Kaplan, Globe Staff, 9/14/2000

UFFALO - Last night's Senate debate - the first skirmish between first lady Hillary Rodham Clinton and Representative Rick Lazio - was a slugfest from start to finish, over everything from tax cuts and health care to soft-money ads and Monica Lewinsky.

Everyone involved foresaw the match - which was televised live across New York state - as an important, possibly crucial, episode in the election.

The common wisdom had it that Clinton needed to push home the idea that she stands for the issues that will help New York, while Lazio needed to convince doubters that he had the ''gravitas'' of a senator.

The debate started with the moderator, NBC's Tim Russert, hammering the first lady on her 1993 health-care plan, recalling its doomed fate, and quoting the attacks against it at the time by Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan, whose seat she hopes to fill.

Clinton, who looked surprised by the question's ferocity, said that she had learned from the experience and that some of the proposal's tenets had been meant as ''a starting point.''

Lazio piled on, calling the Clinton plan ''an unmitigated disaster'' that would have been ''terrible for New York.''

Russert posed hard questions to Lazio, too, and Clinton started responding to her rival's aggressiveness.

''Listening to the congressman's response reminded me of a word I've heard a lot this year - chutzpah,'' she said, using the Yiddish term for audacity.

''You're redefining the word chutzpah,'' Lazio said soon after. He also called her ''Beyond shameless'' and ''positively Clintonesque.''

Clinton depicted Lazio's voting record as catering to former house speaker Newt Gingrich. Lazio countered, ''You, of all people, Mrs. Clinton, should not be trying to make guilt by association'' - an apparent reference to her husband, the president.

The most gulping moment may have come when Russert played a video clip, from the ''Today'' show, of Clinton denying claims that her husband had sexual relations with Monica Lewinsky before the claims were finally admitted. He asked her why she misled people.

Clinton replied, softly, ''I didn't mislead anyone. I didn't know the truth. There's a great deal of pain associated with that.''

Throughout the match, the candidates did repeat the main themes they have emphasized throughout the campaign.

Lazio said several times that he's ''a doer, not just a talker,'' that he has passed important legislation in his eight years in Congress. Clinton talked about her ''30 years'' as an activist on various social issues and her eight years in the White House.

She said in her closing statement, ''I hope New Yorkers will decide it's more important what I'm for than where I'm from. ... If you want someone who will get up every day and be on your side. ... I can pass that test.''

Lazio said, in his conclusion, ''At the heart of this campaign are two issues - character and trust.''

At the end of the debate, Lazio literally pulled a surprise out of his suit pocket - a pledge not to use any more soft money in the campaign. He had signed it already, and walked over to Clinton's podium to ask her to join him.

''Sign it now,'' he said. ''I don't want any more wiggle room, any more evasions. Here it is. Let's sign it. Let's do something important for America.''

She replied, with a chuckle, ''That was a wonderful performance, you did it very well.'' She said she would sign it only if he gave her similar pledges signed by all the independent groups that have run negative TV ads and mailed anti-Hillary letters across the state.

Lazio's wife, Patricia, attended the debate; President Clinton did not.