Excerpts from Saturday's debate in Johnston, Iowa, among
Republican presidential candidates Gary Bauer, Texas Gov. George W.
Bush, Steve Forbes, Sen. Orrin Hatch of Utah, Alan Keyes and Sen.
John McCAIN of Arizona, as transcribed by the Federal Document
Clearing House:
On health care:
BAUER: The politicians in Washington have taken care of
themselves and federal employees with a great federal health care
plan. Every year you get to choose from 200 health insurance
policies. Many of them do cover long-term care.
We've looked at this. A bipartisan commission determined that we
could let older Americans opt out of Medicare into that federal
plan. We could save money and provide the long-term care that your
family needs and the prescription drug coverage and save money
in the process. This is the kind of reform I'll do as president.
It's important, and I'm committed to it.
HATCH: Well, I'm not just talking about it. I'm not just making
promises. I've actually worked on long-term-care issues from the
time I was in the Senate. I'm one of the prime authors of the home
health care bill that brings home health care right into the home,
where the senior citizen or person who's sick actually feels more
(indistinct) and more psychologically and psychiatrically secure.
I've worked very hard on nursing home issues. For instance, I
came to Iowa. I visited a number of the nursing homes, especially
the skilled nursing facilities, where complex medical patients
like people with Alzheimer's, like people with difficulties
described here today are taken care of.
KEYES: We shouldn't have government and other bureaucracies
dictating to people who are trying to act responsibly.
But instead, we need to empower them, through programs that
voucherize the government system, that give people medical savings
accounts, that allow greater choice on the part of individuals and
families, allow them to make the decisions that can help us to keep
the costs down. And by making better use of our medical dollars, we
will then be able to allocate those dollars with priority to the
things that families really can't handle for themselves. And that
means giving top priority to the kind of long-term care that can
have a catastrophic effect on the family budget.
If we take the right approach, people will be armed to keep the costs down, and our medical dollars can be used more effectively to help people meet those needs that they can't meet for themselves.
McCAIN: All of the proposals that my colleagues have mentioned
are all good, including tax deductions for those who itemize, as
well as those who don't medical savings accounts, et cetera. But
I want to talk about a special group of Americans that may not be
able to do all these things, and that's our World War II veterans,
our greatest generation.
They're leaving us at 30,000 a month. We promised them health
care and benefits when we asked them to go out and serve and
sacrifice. We're not doing that, my friends. They deserve the
health-care benefits that we promise them.
FORBES: I think the key is putting patients in charge of health
care resources again. There is no need for all of these third
parties HMOs, insurers, employers, gatekeepers, government
bureaucracies that stand in the way.
It's true: If you work for the federal government as a civilian,
if you're a member of Congress, you have your choice of several
hundred different health-care plans. If it's good enough for
Congress, it should be good enough for the elderly in America.
So that way, if you need long-term care, you can choose a plan
that does it. If you need prescriptive medicines, you can choose a
plan that does it.
BUSH: The danger in the health-care debate is that America falls
prey to the idea that the federal government should make all
decisions for consumers and the federal government should make all
decisions for the provider, that the federal government should
ration care. The good news is none of us on this stage supports
that. The other two candidates running for the Democratic Party
sound like they support that.
The current issue, as far as the elderly, is there's an agency
called HCFA. It's controlled by a 132,000-page document to
determine how to allocate and ration Medicare dollars to the
seniors. It is a plan that is inefficient. It is a plan that's
antiquated. And what our government must do is empower our seniors
to be able to make choices for themselves and support premiums for
the poorest of seniors.
In terms of long-term care for the baby boomers, I think we
ought to encourage the purchase of long-term care insurance and
allow deductibility of that insurance so that new younger
generations are able to plan more aptly for when they retire and
when they become more elderly.
Bauer asked Hatch if he was putting trade before human rights
and national security by supporting China's most-favored-nation, or
permanent normal trade, status:
HATCH: Well, I happen to believe that I have put national
security and human rights in front of trade. But I was there in
China in the late '70s, the early '80s, the late '80s, the early
'90s and the late '90s. The difference between the late '70s and
the late '90s is so stark you can't hardly believe it, because
there is a creeping freedom that is growing there because we're
bringing China into the world of nations and expecting them to
abide by the rule of law.
Yes, they don't treat liberty very well over there. They violate
human rights. They've enslaved the Tibetans. And they've threatened
Taiwan, and they've caused problems all over that area.
On the other hand, I don't think the way to solve the problem is
to isolate China. I think the way to solve the problem is to bring
China into the world of nations WTO, IMF, et cetera where
they've got to act like real human beings.
BAUER: And I can tell you, Senator, that (President Ronald
Reagan) never gave the Soviet Union most-favored-nation status. I
would agree with you that China there's some creeping going on.
The creeping is the Chinese presence now in the Panama Canal Zone.
The creeping are the missiles coming, and now aimed at Taiwan.
Sir, we cannot trade our way out of this problem. You are being
naive in your answer.
Bush was asked if he is concerned that the city council of El
Cenizo, a small border town in Texas, passed an ordinance declaring
that all city meetings and functions would be held in Spanish:
BUSH: I expressed concern about it. I don't want this town's
business being conducted in Spanish. It ought to be conducted in
English. Secondly, I've talked to our attorney general to make sure
that this town was conforming to all the laws that they open
their meetings their meetings be conducted under the laws of
Texas.
And so I did express concern about it. And I do express concern
about it. English is our nation's language. That's why I'm for
programs that make sure our children learn to speak English. That's
why I'm for programs that's why I'm for what's called
English-Plus. English is the great language that provides freedom
and opportunity, plus we respect other people's heritage in this
country.
Keyes urged Bush to ask a South Carolina state senator to
apologize for what he said were racist remarks:
BUSH: Yes, I agree with you, Alan. His comments are out of line, and we should repudiate them.
Forbes was asked what he would do to improve U.S. intelligence
capabilities:
FORBES: We have to rebuild our intelligence and actually use our
intelligence, which clearly this administration has not been doing.
There's a whole job of rebuilding that has to be done. It's not
just intelligence. It's not just cleaning out the Justice
Department.
We've all made reference to the military. We need a major
military buildup, starting with compensation for our people. We
need more equipment, more spare parts, better training, better R&D.
And, as John said, we must abide by the promises made to our
veterans. Absolutely.
On taxes:
McCAIN: The real issue is, my friends, is we've got a surplus.
And for the first time since Dwight David Eisenhower, we've got a
surplus. And the question is what do you want to do with it?
I want to give it to low- and middle-income Americans as a tax
cut. I want to give them the benefits from this that they need that
lower- and middle-income Americans need.
But I also think we've got a ticking time bomb out there called
Social Security. That has got to be fixed. We've got a national
debt of $5.6 trillion that we need to pay for because we're
laying that debt on young Americans. We need to pay down that debt.
Governor Bush's plan has not one penny for Social Security, not
one penny for Medicare and not one penny for paying down the
national debt.
And when you run ads saying you're going to take care of Social
Security, my friend, that's all hat and no cattle.
And the reality is, that (Bush's) tax plan has 36 percent of it
going to the richest 1 percent in America. I don't do that. I think
that we ought to give the tax relief to the people that need it the
most.
Two trillion dollars isn't the Social Security trust fund. You
know that. Let's not do the Texas two-step here. It needs $5-to-$7
trillion more, and we've got to do it soon, so that they can invest
their retirement into savings investments of their choice, so we
can save the system.
On agriculture:
FORBES: For the farmer, there are several things that have to be
done. One is to open up foreign markets, which this administration
talks about but does not do. Don't harm our existing foreign
customers in the Pacific Rim and elsewhere with disastrous economic
policies that have cost us $30 billion in farm exports.
Enforce antitrust laws, and this will help family farmers. There
are laws on the books against vertical integration going back to
the turn of this century. This administration is not enforcing
them.
And the Federal Reserve has got to get off of this
high-interest-rate kick. They did that in the mid-1980s, (and)
devastated commodity prices and farmers. They've got to get off of
it. It's unnecessary. It's doing unnecessary harm to the economy of
the farmer and will eventually do harm to the economy as a whole.
HATCH: Ten years ago, we had 22 million farmers, people in
farming. Today, we have 5 million. The family farm is being beset
on all sides. Fifteen years ago, farmers got more for their
products than they do today.
Now look, we've got to solve the vertical and horizontal
integration problems. We've got to solve the problems of spreading
our agricultural commodities all over the world. We've got to get
tough on trade. We've got to have an administration that really
goes after it.
McCAIN: I think that what's happening is very sad. We're seeing
a greater consolidation of the agribusinesses. For example, a
majority of the ethanol subsidies goes to Archer Daniels Midland,
which is over in Illinois, as I understand it. Obviously we need
crop insurance. We need to examine why it is that the government
takes almost everything that a family earns all of his life and
can't pass it on to their children. I think that making the
inheritance tax kick in only at a level of about $5 million would
have enormous beneficial effect on that.
Also, I'm the greatest free trader you will know. I will lower
barriers to product goods and products from other countries, if
they will lower their barriers to ours.
And the most productive farmer in the world is the American
farmer and the Iowa farmer. The people in Beijing and Bangkok and
Paris will be eating Iowa pork, and they will love it, because I
will get those products into their markets.
KEYES: I think two things are true. First of all, we need to
look at the root of this problem. Steve nibbles around the edges a
little bit when he talks about the Federal Reserve, but the truth
of it is we've had government programs that were aimed at
compensating for the fundamental reality that in the course of this
century we've restructured our banking system in a way that was
insensitive to the needs of the family and independent farmer.
I think we need to take a careful look at the way in which this
whole centralized banking system is contrary to the interests of
farmers and move in a direction that will restore an element to the
banking system that works and is sensitive to the needs, the
capital needs of farmers.
And I want to get away from this collectivist bargaining
approach, and in a hard-hitting way, a businesslike approach, force
other countries to accept our goods as the condition of their entry
into American markets. We can't do that at the collectivist,
so-called free-trade bargaining table. And that's why I think we
ought to withdraw from the WTO.
BUSH: I would consider the formula look at the formulas to
make sure that the money was distributed fairly. And as
importantly, would have an Agricultural Department that would, that
would send the money out on a timely basis. This current
Agricultural Department's held money for too long for these farmers
waiting for the money.
I believe we ought to increase demand for Iowa products. That's
what ethanol does, John, increases demand for Iowa corn. I think we
ought to open up markets all around the world. I think we ought to
reduce barriers and tariffs. We shouldn't be using food as a
diplomatic weapon. We ought to we ought to implement the
food-for-peace program.
I think we ought to eliminate the death tax as well, so people
can pass their farm from one generation to the next. And we ought
to have good sound risk management policies that give farmers more
options when it comes to crop insurance and more options on how to
manage their income.
Agriculture is incredibly important for this country. And one of
the reasons why we've had trouble in the world is because
administrations have traded off agricultural issues as if it's a
secondary part of our economy. It's not.
BAUER: I will cap the benefits. I'll enforce the antitrust laws.
But I'll also make sure that China quits playing us for suckers. We
let them pour their goods in here while they buy less of Iowa farm
products than they did five years ago.
And I'll tell our European allies that we bailed you out twice
this century. It's time for you to treat us like an ally. Stop
protecting your farmers or we will fight just as hard for our
farmers. I am not going to forget the little guy of this state.
On education:
McCAIN: Choice and competition are the key to the future of
education in America. And if we don't keep that decision-making
process at the state and local level then we'll just see a
repetition of what we've seen in the past, which is a very
unfortunate situation. Students in America rank at the bottom in
the most important disciplines, such as physics, science and
chemistry.
I believe that we should try charter schools all over America.
In my state of Arizona, they are very popular.
BAUER: I support vouchers, credits for all forms of education,
including home-schoolers. I think we can get the bureaucracy out of
the way and begin to have some real good things happen in the
classroom again, which is what every American, Republican or
Democrat, wants. It's not a money problem; it's a will problem.
BUSH: I'm not running for federal superintendent of schools, and
I don't want to be the federal principal. I want to pass power back
from Washington, D.C., to states. I've had a lot of experience when
it comes to improving public education. It starts with trusting
local people to make the right decisions for their schools.
I strongly believe in local control of schools, and so I will
work with the Congress to pass power back from Washington, D.C., in
block-grant form to states and local jurisdictions.
But when the federal government spends money like it does on the
poorest of the poor, I'm going to ask this question, what are the
results? We must ask school districts and states that accept
federal money to develop on their own not a federal test, but on
their own an accountability system.
On the budget:
HATCH: If we cut out the national debt, we'd save $300 billion a
year. That'd more than take care of Social Security. The fact of
the matter is, we're not knocking down the national debt.
I've got to say, I like all of the tax plans that have been
given here. But I live with reality. They're now saying that the
Democrats may very well take over the House. But even if they
didn't, and we have the same ratio today in the Senate and the
House, there isn't one of these plans that's going to go through.
The Democrats will fight it tooth and nail. And then the Senate
will filibuster.
The fact of the matter is, we're going to have to have somebody
who knows how to get a tax plan through. And I've got to tell you,
I'm on the Senate Finance Committee, and I know just exactly how it
works. And it's horrendous. It's going to take somebody who
basically will repeal the outrageous Clinton tax increases, who
will double the family exemption, who will try to bring down
marginal tax rates, who will make Social Security deductible so
that the people who basically that's their biggest tax get some
benefit there. And I could go on and on.
But it's going to take somebody with experience to get it done, not just a bunch of promises.
